The plaintiff is a collections agency, not the creditor.

 

I received a “strange” copy of a contract the other party (plaintiffs) claim they sent me.
That contract doesn’t even have either parties names on it, obviously no signatures etc.

How or where do I find the essential elements of getting this to be inadmissible? (I don’t even know if the wording of this question is the right wording, what I see it something any normal person wouldn’t allow in, but I also learned from Jurisdictionary that, that’s exactly NOT how court system works… at least Im there but now I need to write it correctly)

It's the rules of evidence.   It's not automaticly admitted.   That's what happens at trial but you should be prepared with the evidence rules

Have you taken the evidence class inside the course ?

During Discovery,

ask them to Authenticate it, identify who created/sent it, produce the "original," explain the missing names/signatures, and provide any chain of custody.

Exact language from Complaint:

" Plaintiff alleges that on or about September fifth, 2023, an agreement to establish an account was made between defendant and plaintiff's predecessor-in- interest, the essential terms of the agreement were to establish an account for use by defendant. Defendant opened and derived benefit from the account. By using the account, defendant expressly or impliedly promised to repay plaintiff's predecessor-in-interest."

Here's why it fails - one of the essential elements of a "Breach of Contract" Cause of Action in CA. is "The existence of a valid contract"

1. No actual terms
"Essential terms were to establish an account" tells the court nothing. What were the interest rate terms? Credit limit? Payment schedule? Late fees? Grace period? None of that is alleged.
2. "Expressly or impliedly"
A breach of written contract claim requires a written agreement. The word "impliedly" signals they can't actually produce one. Under CCP §430.10(g):
"In an action founded upon a contract, it cannot be ascertained from the pleading whether the contract is written, is oral, or is implied by conduct."
That word "impliedly" in their complaint creates ambiguity about whether this is even a written contract claim.
3. "Predecessor-in-interest"
They don't identify who this is. No name, no entity. That's another pleading deficiency.

     Short answer - the Plaintiff didn't include a copy of the original contract in the Complaint

This usually happens, and definitely in this case, because the Collections Agency buys a huge group of debt accounts, which don't include the original contracts - they just get a spreadsheet with basic account info, and maybe a statement or two

You fail to see such claims need not be based entirely in "contract" as you assume incorrectly. The equitable remedies of quantum meruit, account stated, and unjust enrichment to name just three kick in where no express contract exists or can be proven yet the debtor has gained advantage by failing to abide by his promise. There is more to this than you yet understand, and we would all like to help you, IF you do not owe the money in truth or have some other valid grounds for imagining you have no duty to pay it back. Failure to pay debts raises the cost of living for the rest of us.

*See the Motion & Hearing section of the course,as well as Evidence

Use their answers to support your Motion.

Courts may allow Authentication, if the Declaration provides enough circumstantial support.
Without it, the Declaration is Conclusory.
The Evidence section of the Jurisdictionary Course explains this, in detail.

It takes out all the guess work.

*Also see the Affidavits section

However you can't cross examine a piece of paper.

Correct,as the course teaches.

*Objections

Depends on the state. In California anything claimed by a judicial officer or BAR member is deemed as forensic expert evidence and irrefutable factual truth whether a showing is made or not.

Public Justice Education 🙏

Contracts are not pleadings.

Show me the law on that, please.

There is none. I only have personal knowledge that they do not abide by that which we must abide by. I was being sarcastic and that achieves nothing positive. We must have mass justice education, because it's up to us to make positive changes. Our apathy almost cooked our goose.

Please again send the bio, photo, and why we must have massive public justice education.

lawbook@jurisdictionary.com

Peace IS possible!

This is why we must secure the record, document everything, and hold them accountable. If enough of us do this we can leverage them. They are used to getting away with their unlawful and unprofessional conduct. The day of reckoning is fast approaching, it's essentially a numbers game. The more the merrier.

Dr. Graves how do I find the law (?) that banks use to say that to opt out of something that the exclusive way is to call them on the phone (opt out of arbitration for example)

I remember a phone call like this a couple of years ago (to a different bank) and asked for a written confirmation but first she pretended that i asked if it was confirmed etc etc after me persisting she said yeah it will be sent in the mail, which you could tell in her voice she wants to get me off the phone and i knew nothing would come, which it didn’t.

Do we then, ask permission to record it, record and transcribe, send transcript to the bank in a way we’re not asking but turning it around like them saying something like if you’re not agreeing contact us within 30 days
not doing so makes this undisputed document verified and immediately “admittable” in court

Can we do that????
(Should we do that?)

Or should I try harder to find this law this bank uses naming phone calls as an exclusive opt out.

Well, when I got evicted, I emailed every party involved, the Supreme Court, chief justice of my state, the Supreme Court administrator of my state, the District Court administrator, the chief Judge, all the judges, and everyone involved in the judicial disciplinary head Clerk, and the bar grievance head Clerk.
End, I told them all that I am one of the people, and that officers of the court were all stealing my property without real parties and interest on vacate judgments and we’re trespassing on the estate without authority for unjust enrichment and intentionally harming me. Within three days, all of the attorneys withdrew as council in my foreclosure and my eviction, and the eviction attorney filed a motion to grant me a dismissal with prejudice, and I have an order sitting on the Judge desk to get possession back and I’m gonna get an order on the foreclosure judges tomorrow to vacate the foreclosure, incorrect all their records and put my house in the private. There’s zero remedy in those courts  zero. I don’t recommend doing that but it’s been going on for three years and they all dug a hole so deep in fraud and I was sick and tired of being diplomatic about it and trying to get remedy where remedy cannot be gotten.

What are you trying to do?

A simple email that stated your "One of the People",and it made them all fold?
Courts are no longer necessary,or appropriate?
Is that your stance?

Everything possible for 3 years . Documenting and recording everything. Notices, oppositions, testimonials affidavits motions. You name it, I did it. Most people cave. The courts are corrupt as hell. I know of noone winning against these criminals .

Exact language from Complaint:

" Plaintiff alleges that on or about September fifth, 2023, an agreement to establish an account was made between defendant and plaintiff's predecessor-in- interest, the essential terms of the agreement were to establish an account for use by defendant. Defendant opened and derived benefit from the account. By using the account, defendant expressly or impliedly promised to repay plaintiff's predecessor-in-interest."

Here's why it fails - one of the essential elements of a "Breach of Contract" Cause of Action in CA. is "The existence of a valid contract"

1. No actual terms
"Essential terms were to establish an account" tells the court nothing. What were the interest rate terms? Credit limit? Payment schedule? Late fees? Grace period? None of that is alleged.
2. "Expressly or impliedly"
A breach of written contract claim requires a written agreement. The word "impliedly" signals they can't actually produce one. Under CCP §430.10(g):
"In an action founded upon a contract, it cannot be ascertained from the pleading whether the contract is written, is oral, or is implied by conduct."
That word "impliedly" in their complaint creates ambiguity about whether this is even a written contract claim.
3. "Predecessor-in-interest"
They don't identify who this is. No name, no entity. That's another pleading deficiency.

     Short answer - the Plaintiff didn't include a copy of the original contract in the Complaint

This usually happens, and definitely in this case, because the Collections Agency buys a huge group of debt accounts, which don't include the original contracts - they just get a spreadsheet with basic account info, and maybe a statement or two.

I'm just outlining the Plaintiff's cause of action and why it fails, and why I'll be filing a Demurrer.
The plaintiff is a collections agency, not the creditor.

Do you owe the money?

No, the original creditor has already been paid back

hat's NOT how this works, no matter what idiots tell you on the internet.
Did YOU pay the debt you promised?

I going in person in the morning to check their records and see if there is an affidavit stating what formed the basis for probable cause.

Ok. So let me get this straight.
You are claiming you established a debt with a creditor and thus a contract with that creditor that you would pay the debt.
Is that correct?
Then you are claiming that because the creditor did not receive payments from YOU, and has legally passed the debt collection process to another party that you no longer owe the debt because the creditor has breached the contract by passing it off.

Is that what you’re claiming?

Because I’m confused who was the first to breach the contract? You or the creditor? The contract was established between you and the creditor. You believe someone else paid the creditor and so you don’t have to. Who made this other person party to that contract? And where does it say in the contract that all money the creditor earns through other means (even if it is from making money out of thin air from your debt which actually is NOT true as the fractional money system is dependent on deposits, not on credit!) counts towards payments to your debt? Are you sure your contract states this?

Then you think because the creditor now wants to get another party involved that that move isn’t fair because you claim the debt collector party is also not party to the contract.

Gosh. When will the actual parties to the contract follow and satisfy the terms of the contract? That would be YOU and the creditor or the creditor’s agent as this was probably specified in the terms and conditions of that contract.

Perhaps you should read the contract before you start claiming someone other than yourself breached it and trying to defend yourself on a baseless argument. The terms of the contract are where your answers exist. Look there.

I'm simply showing how the collections agency's Complaint does not have the essential elements required for the cause of action that it states.

And you really need to calm down. I was asked by one of the moderators to show how the Complaint fails.
And I don't appreciate you harassing me about things that are not relevant to that.

I didn’t see that in your posts. Neither did Graves, otherwise he wouldn’t barked about paying the debt that is owed.

If the contract with the original creditor grants a right to assign the debt to another, then the collection agency can rightfully seek to enforce that contract once assigned.

"No affidavit on facts on file for this case" is what a man clerk said to me when I just got done seeing them just now.

Technically what's happening is:

Civil Code §1458
"A right arising out of an obligation is the property of the person to whom it is due, and may be transferred as such"

It's a little confusing because the right to collect is based off the original contract, which the collections agency must show a copy of.

You do know the federal law says a debt collector has to prove they own the debt? Fla FCCPA prohibits any person from claim and assertions of a legal status that does not exist. FDCPA is the federal part, Bryan Parker is an atty on YouTube teaching the collectors never have title to any debt, their burden of proof

Did you review the whole file.

Isn’t NJ a one-party consent state? and if it is, does that change anything?

The initial file was a mandatory appearance. I got an officer report which is totally new to me. The prosecutor did not read this report at the arraignment. I posted a video with only the audio of the arraignment.


When i asked the municipal clerk today, using the exact words is there an affidavit stating what formed the basis for probable cause from the judge commissioner, the man clerk said, "I currently see, no affidavit of facts on file for this case." Im still here. And have about 45 minutes left until my parking runs out.

They gave me a list of what was filed with the clerk. I have copies of everything on file in my email.

Usually the police report is a part of discovery not necessary inside the court records

What is that supposed to mean to me? All of this seems wrong from the TSA, to police, and now the courts. Max sentence for this kind of thing being falsely accused of criminal trespass 2nd degree if found guilty when I had a plane ticket to fly, to police not following due process, commissioner judge finding probable cause based off of police lies in his statement, its all wrong. 90 days in jail and/or $1000 fine.

You can appeal an increase in value. That would take obtaining written testimony from real estate professionals, market data, and comps. They can't tax you based on an inflated value.

Also, since you have a mortgage your lender will impound tax payments in advance. Without a loan one can determine the years it takes before a county government can foreclose. Where I live it's 5 years. You could not make tax payments for a few years and then pay for a year so as to not accrue 5 years. Then don't pay a year or two and then resume an annual payment, if applicable to your local rules and codes. Prices are going down in general in many areas.

Read up on the requirements needed to decrease your property valuation based on county guidelines. When there is a will there is a way.

If you want to win a legitimate case and have the perpetrator pay you for your damages then opinions matter not. There is danger to your advice and it's called losing on a motion for payment of damages for malicious prosecution or slander/libel. If you want public exposure write a book or OP/ED. Why bother otherwise? Like a publicity stunt without arrest, what's the purpose of a lengthy court drama to prove a point for a losing proposition?

Pay your taxes,or don't.

Either way,this group is for learning the Rules of Procedure & Evidence Tactics.

The original question was regarding suing an employer........

Please,take the "Tax Fight",to the other groups.

Tax law is complex, so there could be multiple, but we could start with 26 CFR 1.1441-7(a)

Is that the name of the group? I haven't filed a return since 2019. The IRS was rattling their sword threatening that I owed them $50,000 plus compounding interest for not filing. They can collect via garnishment or property liens. I no longer have assets they can collect via those means. I successfully got the state of California to withdraw their claims with one letter and sent that letter to the IRS whom I have not heard from since. I think that success was due to the lack of collectible assets.

Give them a W8-BEN or make your own W8-BEN substitute because the IRS publication says you can, if they don't accept it because they're scared stupid, sign whatever they want, exempt, 'without prejudice, under duress' before your signature.. after you get looted and receive a W2, send in form 4852, W2 substitute, to challenge/rebut their claim of you 'exercising privileges' that would validate taxation, claiming 0 income on form 4852.. to refund what they looted.01:12 AM

SPOK

1) you still have money removed from your paycheck if a W-4 is involved
2) signing either form triggers assessment
3) signing exempt can get you a lock-in letter

Demand to be employed as an independent contractor and be issued a 1099 instead of a W-4 or otherwise. The employer then sends a 1099 to the IRS. If the IRS gives you a hard time present your argument to them. Your leverage with the employer is that it will save the employer a good deal of money.

A lock-in letter gets sent to your employer and locks you in to the highest withholding. You can't change it.

Regardless, possibly one of the few ways to get companies to stop illegally requiring you to sign these forms and/or withhold from you, which contains no penalty to NOT do it, is the teach them the law - possibly through court. That's what I want to do. I don't want to be a little good boy and follow daddy's orders.08:25 PM

I see. Well, I WANT to sue employers who require people to fill out a W4/W9 - or don't, but still issue a 1099 - so that they'll hopefully learn that that is not only NOT required by law, but is ONLY meant for the people that it's actually meant for.

Of course I would also attempt to resolve this out of court, prior to suing.

One employer would not have subject matter jurisdiction to accomplish your goal. You'd be better off suing the proper party and that's the IRS in my opinion.

You don't think an employer can be held liable for requiring an employee to sign a form inapplicable to him, under penalty of perjury, as a condition of employment, and then firing him for refusing to sign that form after educating the employer that the law does not require it?

Tell me how that is not wrongful termination in violation of public policy.

It has nothing to do with the IRS. The employer is misinterpreting the law, regardless of how propagandized he has been.

Indeed that is wrong because most employers do not understand what a taxable wage is. It is certainly not your labor. A wage is generally paid to federal and foreign workers. Hold on and I'll cite the IRS code to argue.

I know most of the codes. I'm just not sure how *exactly* to write the complaint in this situation. I've been through Juris but this is, I'm sure, a more complex issue to convince a judge.

And I'd like to somehow write it in a way that I don't use terms like "W-4" or "W-9" if there is a way.

Check out these codes: 26 USC 3603, erroneous payments; Rowan CO v. United States 452 US 247; Chapter 24 (wages) 26 USC 3501(a); Chapter 21; Form 4852 substitute for W2.207:32 PM

I'm not sure how 3501(a) would help, 3603 doesn't exist, Form 4852 has nothing to do with it, and the case law seems irrelevant

Trevor is in the tax law channel and has much more knowledge about the laws, codes and directives.

When I initially commented I thought his problem involved a requirement to sign a W-4. I wasn't aware he had been terminated for not executing one at first.

I haven't been terminated and I understand these cases are difficult for a pro se, ESPECIALLY with respect to taxation, but I'm not sure how else we are going to fix what's broken without trying to hold people accountable.

My advice stemmed from experience having employees vs independent contractors. Independent contractors aren't required to fill out and sign W statements. I used to manage several businesses, and had always paid and hired workers as independent contractors. I hired a new CPA who told me how wonderful it would be tax wise if I signed workers up and withheld. That was a disaster. It ended up costing the company an unnecessary fortune. In many cases 1099 employees are better.

Independent contractors are generally "required" (by most peoples' understanding) to fill out a W-9 (which leads to a 1099). If not, the company still will often send in a 1099, which is no better.

What should be done if actually following the law is not requiring a W4/W9 and also not reporting a 1099.

You could do something like what one of our other members does. Something like:

"We follow tax law as written. We do not have you fill out a W4/W9, nor do we send in 1099's. If you believe you are a taxpayer and owe taxes to the IRS at the end of the year, you should set aside money for that."

She also gives them a copy of a short pamphlet to give them a quick understanding of why those forms don't apply to the average worker and she also offers to pay for a consult with Dave if they would like.
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